loan sometimes are reluctant to want do it. simply because many of the parents have extremely low income. and for example, if your income is $20,000 a year, family income, and you go and you borrow 15 to $20,000 from plus loan, it creates a serious burden on the parent. many cases parents may not be able to repay that. so i think that if it were available, that would preclude parents from having to seek the loan to close gaps. i think it could be important. >> so i think we've had an opening. yes, go ahead. come and ask your question. >> thank you. good morning. leslie baskerville, president and ceo, of the membership association of the 105 historically black colleges and universities. i would like to thank each one of you again for your time and

for presenting this information to us. a special thanks to you, gary. given the trends that you talked about in wealth, and given that the growing populations are low income, first generation students, traditionally underresourced, underserved students. hispanics. asian pacific islanders and african-american students. and given that hbcus are proven, to keep the cost, according to the com edge board, for privates, $10,000 lower than historically white colleges for public's $2500 for their per semester for their colleges. might we not come together around the idea of supporting and investing a cost of doing business? a cost of educating the growing population needs higher ed bill. such that colleges and

universities get a bonus. that's the question. >> all right. what sort of implications for higher eds. >> no, not implications. i have a specific, would you support a cost off education bonus to colleges and universities like hbcus and hsis, that are doing the best job of the growing population, a cost of doing business bonus. >> okay. i think that i probably would. i think that -- look, i think that we do need some clear acknowledgement of where colleges are doing an exceptional job of meeting need. i don't mean financial need. i mean the communities around them they are serving. i like your phrase, cost of doing business. frankly, i think most colleges and universities in this country are open access ins tiegs are not getting the financial support they need in order to do their business well. and that is very strongly related to their underperform

ups and graduation rates. we cannot resource institutions with less than than you need to pro viet high quality remedial education. i would go one step further. what i'm thinking is your proposal is very, very modest. i believe that these institutions are providing such a great service to the nation that historically have that we ought to have a discussion about them becoming in some fashion of state supported. you know, institutions. and we've done that in the past when we needed to preserve institutions and preserve you know our ip vestments in those schools and i think we should consider that.ip vestments in t schools and i think we should consider that.nip vestments in e schools and i think we should consider that. vestments in tho schools and i think we should consider that.vestments in thos schools and i think we should consider that. i would like to hear a discussion about that from the hbcus. >> dr. kirkland? >> yeah. one of the tennants that i like to present is that, what we do is we take student with many

challenges and we graduate them. where other well financed institutions with higher admission standards who saw a cherry pick off the top and get top students, there is no variation in your population. and it is easy because you get students who are highly motivated, who have strong precollegiate background and i submit that dill et can graduate the 90, 95% of those students as well. if we were more properly resourced then we would be able to overcome challenges that we faced with financial aid. but i would challenge those institutions who graduate 90% to take dill et student and graduate the same percent we graduate. >> thank you very much. we can take one more really quick question. two minutes. >> howard university assist upt

professor recently at mexico state university will policy story line here you have the debate of merit versus need-based scholarship situations and have you at the state political level kind of almost a debate that's is winning in favor of the merit based conversations. scholarships. or changes in admissions type 2 loan default rates that conversation and sphere. the question here, is not as much of how we transform at the state political level, the assumptions around financial aid. but more importantly, how does reauthorization of the higher education act kind of connect to that very real challenge at the state level that just an example were about, you can lose this battle. you have common core conversation where state by state there is literally a play by play. now have you a national conversation change in policy. how do we do that a the federal level to con negligent to that

debate. >> thank you. would you like comment on that? >> i think i understand your question. certainly, it is important to acknowledge that policy making is occurring across our 50 states and that they are going to play a powerful role and how anything done at the federal level will play out. and it can undermine the level. i think there is a strong stance in terms of messages about what the purpose of for example the federal financial aid program is. and the purpose aught to be to make cost effective investments. that transform people's lives. what we know from research on merit aid is that it doesn't accomplish that. it resources people who already have a leg up and it doesn't create much delta in their outcome. that's inefish ept. not a good investment, right? what we want to do is get people

focused on where to use the scarce resources to change loifs. it is very kplaer, for example, if you are going to have limt its or federal loans then heck we would limit those access to those loans for the most upper middle class folks. but that's not what is being talked about here, is it? we are talking about institution where people don't have less access to loans. so it is important for the federal government and take the lead in getting the the states to get their heads around it. >> to for me it boils down to politics and good politics. you are look og for ting for th who are going to lep you get reelocated. one of the things you want do is address that community that participates and what we call a louisiana law. and so, what state legislators do is they look and they see that well we can benefit the

middle class. but that also allowed the middle class to support us in electoral contest. i this i to get it to the national level, i think that it has to become an issue that gains traction.